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"You can start making sense of your marketing by understanding what marketing channels are driving the best leads that convert at the fastest rates that ultimately stay for the longest." — Mike Wolber
You probably know about lead acquisition. But once a lead comes in, what do you do? Hand it off to the sales rep, cross your fingers, and hope?
That's what most of us do, actually — hope to book a showing. But hope is a poor tool for a typical customer journey. Instead, you can learn to guide your prospect through the twists and turns as you go from lead to lease.
Here's what we talked about:
Nicolina Savelli [0:00:15.5]:
Welcome back to Sync or Swim, I'm your host, Nicolina Savelli, and you're listening to Get Synced where I take a tactical approach to helping those in multifamily improve their marketing and advertising efforts. And today, I have a pretty popular name and multifamily marketing technology, and definitely one with the most clout on LinkedIn from what I've seen. I've got Mike Wolber with me today, who is the Chief Revenue Officer at Rent Dynamics, a lead management solution for multifamily communities. Welcome to the show, Mike.
Mike Wolber [0:01:14.1]:
Hey, thank you a ton for the intro, it's great to be on.
Nicolina Savelli [0:01:16.6]:
Now, before we get into this conversation, which I'm super excited for, Mike, do you mind expanding on that introduction for me to give listeners a better idea of your experience in multifamily and what you do at Rent Dynamics besides the obvious?
Mike Wolber [0:01:31.0]:
Sure, yeah, I'm happy to. And it's fun 'cause I'm brand new to Rent Dynamics, I just crossed my first three months and quick background, I got my career started at Nike and really fell in love with storytelling, working there for about five years and realized how important it is for you to be able to communicate your story if you wanna move forward in your career, but at a certain point, I wanted to go be part of the vendor side, I saw what great companies were doing to solve our challenges at Nike and happened to fall into this industry. I spent six years working for G5 where I culminated with a role where I led all of multifamily, which included sales account management and marketing, and the stars really aligned in the Fall of 2020, and I found myself with a great opportunity to join Rent Dynamics as their first-ever Chief Revenue Officer. So I'm about 90 days in responsible for accelerating growth through through great sales, account management,, and marketing, I call it gotomarket, and so far having an absolute field day with a great team and some phenomenal customers as well.
Nicolina Savelli [0:02:37.3]:
Amazing, thanks, Mike. I find that every conversation I have with someone, they always say that they kind of fell into a multifamily out of nowhere, but it just kinda came to them, so it's funny that you say that as well, it's one of those really niche industries that I think though, once you get into it, you kinda stick with it because it's so unique, and I feel like I've become really married to a lot of the nuances in this industry, and I kinda just wanna keep learning about it. Right. So I think this conversation is long overdue on this podcast, even though this podcast is less than a year old, I think it's still a long, long over due... I think it's one of the biggest concerns for multi family marketers and leasing agents, and really all marketers and salespeople, and that's around lead management, and there's obviously a lot to discuss under the umbrella of lead management. So I'd like to start off with just some high-level stuff as a marketer, I know all about lead acquisition, but once a lead comes in, I kinda don't hear too much until the sales rep either turns it into an opportunity or in the multifamily world, maybe it's booking a showing or leasing to a tenant, so maybe can you walk me through the typical customer journey from lead to lease in multifamily?
Mike Wolber [0:03:57.8]:
Yeah, for sure. It's a really loaded question to start today off with, but let's jump in, you know, it's fun for me because there are some massive parallels between B2B and B2C, and I worked for Nike and it's very much a business to consumer company, and then joining a supplier like G5 now Rent Dynamics, where you're very much selling to businesses, you realize how similar they really are, you're still selling to people, the difference is that sometimes it's the person paying for it, sometimes it's the company and that journey though, when you really talk about that lead to lease journey, in our industry, it's really complicated, and you've got a couple of different marquee areas that we're all familiar with on the marketing side of things when you're looking to generate awareness, connecting with residents, you've got internet listing services, otherwise known as ILS, and they're everywhere. There's a bunch of them, and you've got the massive ones like apartments.com, we just saw the big acquisition of RentPath rolling into Redfin, you've also got these fastgrowing Apartment Lists and Zumpers of the world, then you've got companies that are doing more direct to consumer marketing websites, SEO, paid advertising, social media, and then you've got all of the more organic walkin type of things that still do happen, we'd be surprised in 2021 how many organic...
You know, drive-by still do exist, and so you've got this funnel that gets really loaded up in marketing, and I think one of the big values for the lead management sector where I work, we call it CRM, is that you can really start making sense of your marketing by understanding what marketing channels are driving the best leads that convert at the fastest rates that ultimately stay for the longest, but it still is a pretty nuanced sales process because there are multiple touchpoints happening from that ideally that first touch, which is usually a tour. So did they show up? Did they tour or did they find enough information to make the decision? Did they have to come back? And COVID-19 is just trying to spotlight on the lack of virtual that many of the apartment operators and owners have today to really be able to do it justice with less staff on site, so we're seeing anything from some of the fastest converting in about a week, from first contact to lease up to 90 days for some other marketing channels, so it really is wide with lots of room for opportunity and innovation still...
Nicolina Savelli [0:06:29.7]:
Absolutely, I don't wanna go too far down that road yet because I have some other questions related to everything you just said, but I wanna still keep it a little bit more high level, talking about basically, we know Salesforce has a monopoly on lead management and B2B and in some cases, B2C businesses, but why is it so important for multifamily marketers to have something tailored to them and their unique customer journey, why wouldn't a Salesforce necessarily work for them versus another solution that's tailored to multifamily...
Mike Wolber [0:07:02.5]:
It's a really good question, and it's probably... You started with this point of like, Hey, you fell into multifamily like everyone else seems to, and now that you're here, you feel like you're stuck. I'm crossing the sixyear market, being in the industry, and I don't think I'm going anywhere, and I think one, doing software or services specific to a vertical is really fun. Your network matters a lot more. And you realize that the second point is that it's heavily nuanced, there are so many nuances in multifamily where you're really wrapping yourself around this 12month lease, that there's just a lot of complexity in our industry that is specific enough to where it's a long complicated marketing process, it's a long, complicated sales process, and then retention is so important, that a lot of these enterprise-caliber CRMS like Salesforce and HubSpot, they're built with acquisition in mind, but they don't have the ability nor the desire to spend time plugging into Yardi and RealPage, 'cause for them, it's such a fraction of the industry but for us, I mean those are the most important softwares in the world, and so I think it's largely its size and scale, but also some of the nuanced complexity.
Nicolina Savelli [0:08:15.7]:
Awesome, that makes sense. And I think that anyone who's not in the industry would not even know those names, it's just something that you have to be a part of it to really fully understand it, and that's why those unique systems that do know those names that do know those integration partners they're willing to work, and they already are, they are integrating with those systems. So I wanna drill down a little bit more into lead management and the process, and I know that oftentimes, many agents, or marketers, depending on how big of a property management company, if you're a single-family or multifamily, but they try and overcompensate for leads and for holes in their lead management process by spending more money to bring in more leads, but that's like trying to fix a broken leg with a bandaid and it's not a strategy you can stand on, so how do marketers know if their lead management process is effective... How do they know that one is working in... Your leasing agents could be signing lots of leases and driving income for your property, but that might not be related to effective lead management, it might just be a really good sales team, so what is good lead management? A good lead management process looks like from a leasing agent's perspective?
Mike Wolber [0:09:32.8]:
It's a great question, and I think the beauty of technology today is that you can measure just about everything, and I think one of the smartest but also easiest questions to ask yourself to really embark on this process is, do I have a lead problem or do I have a leasing problem. If you're not getting enough leads, you need to do more marketing, but if you look in your lead management system and you look at the fundamentals of sales and you're not executing, my bet would be that most people in the industry actually have a leasing problem, there's a massive challenge in the industry too with leasing agent turnover, so they're constantly having to train new leasing agents on how to use the technology to lease effectively to learn their process, their language, their culture, their values, their amenities, all of the things. But I think largely, you can use lead management to really get very prescriptive and granular on, are you responding to leads quickly, if you're not responding within 10 minutes, you're doing it wrong, and most people are way outside of the 10 minute window and are you following up with your leads, once they've come in for a tour, well, are you following up to confirm next steps, and so it's a very basic sales motion that I think unfortunately, is still very much in the early days. So ask yourself, Do I have a lead or a leasing problem? If you have a leasing problem, use the data to come up with the right action plan.
Nicolina Savelli [0:11:04.3]:
Which leads very well into my next question. So if you have a leasing problem, what do you think marketers in the industry should be using in terms of features like autoresponders to ensure every lead is given the attention it deserves. What tools are you seeing being used more often or should be used more often, in the industry right now, to ensure that that leasing, those leads are engaged and 10 minutes is really, really fast, but... How do you accomplish that?
Mike Wolber [0:11:34.7]:
I mean, I think right now, it's the ultimate time to think about being flexible with COVID-19 folks like you and I who are working from home for maybe the first time in our careers, we're working all hours of the day now as we're trying to juggle personal and professional life under the same roof, which means that the things that we used to do only between 8 and 5, sometimes we're now not doing until 10 o'clock once the kids are finally tucked into bed, which means that if you're still operating your leasing office with the arbitrary nine to five hours, how much are you leaving in the open for people that are trying to engage with you at night? And so I think those kinds of business operation questions are really important right now, but from a technology perspective, we're seeing so much new that I think is still in the early days to really know if it's working or not, we've got medalist, we've got Lisa, we've got all these smart technologies that are trying to make the leasing experience entirely virtual, you call they... Hang up and they turn it into a text. And we're still seeing whether or not that's paying off, but I'm seeing some pretty cool results there, and I think we're still seeing the benefits of chatbot technology that can be deployed and in a very omnichannel way, meaning you can place it not just on the website, but in every possible chat solution out there, so it's on Facebook and Pinterest, on your Google My Business listing. I think we're just... In a day and age, you need to be everywhere. And if you're not, you're definitely leaving something out there that someone else is most likely grabbing.
Nicolina Savelli [0:13:06.1]:
Right, and now... Going off script a little bit, but obviously, COVID has become the propeller of all of this really. I mean, if you weren't doing it before, you should be doing it now, so I mean, if you are still trying to catch up, what if you're one of those companies, one of the property management companies that didn't even have a website until this year, what can they do in terms of making sure that these processes are working and that their lead management is functioning properly when they're still kind of trying to get into the digital space right now, how do you see companies manage that kind of stuff right now?
Mike Wolber [0:13:49.4]:
So one of my personal quirk, as I always mess up quotes when I try to use them to sound smart, but
Nicolina Savelli [0:13:56.1]:
You can do your best here...
Mike Wolber [0:13:58.4]:
I think there's a quote that says, "What gets measured gets done", and I don't know where it comes from, but I've definitely heard that before. And I think to answer that question, I would use a quote. And the reason for that is, if you have a website if you have a lead management solution, if you have a property management stack of software, you've got a lot of data at your fingertips, and it's really important that you look at yesterday to see what happened, where are leads coming through, where are things falling through the cracks, where are we trending from an occupancy standpoint, very baseline questions at our industry, but you have look back, so you can look forward, and I think that's where you need to start measuring first, and I think too often, we fall into this busy trap of putting out fires, and our customers have significant fires they have to put out when they're providing homes to hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people because a crisis to them could be life and death where as you and I it is my software working today. But I think it's really important because taking the time to routinely be measuring what's working, so you can start to optimize before doing that first step, I think we get to gungho on trying to make it perfect, but good. Oftentimes is good enough, so I don't know that. If that makes sense.
Nicolina Savelli [0:15:19.3]:
No, that does make sense. And I think that it really is baby steps, sometimes if as long as you're able to measure what you're implementing and it's showing some... The moving the needle in some direction, positive direction, then you're in the right spot, but trying to do it all at once can be a little bit overwhelming, I think for some... And we just need to kind of... As long as you're moving forward and you're using data and data driven insights to move forward then you're probably doing something... Something right? Yeah, so I guess we've kind of touched on this and maybe there's something deeper that you can kind of speak to, maybe even at Rent Dynamics, but what are some of the tools that exist for lead management or lead automation that you feel as an industry we should leverage more of...
Mike Wolber [0:16:08.1]:
So I think there are two things that everyone should be doing today, and I think some are doing this really well and some are not, I think the first one is not a technology at all, it's having a sales process you know as a B2B sales guy had been in the industry for six years, sales process is so important as an individual contributor and as a leader, and I think just challenging partners and customers to have a sales process, so it's really routine for how you train and ramp your leasing teams, use your technology to really measure and establish your baselines, what is your lead response time, what is your followup cadence, what is your objection handling, what do you do if someone wants a unit, but it's not available, that kind of stuff could really be automated and it could be inexpensive uploaded to a private YouTube video with the three hours of training, and all of a sudden you're ramping people in a week versus three months... Right, right. I think that playbook mentality with having a leasing strategy that's documented trained on, but iterated because it changes so fast. That's the first thing.
Nicolina Savelli [0:17:15.7]:
Interested in being a guest on Sync or Swim? Or have a really great idea for an episode. Email us at email@example.com.
Mike Wolber [0:17:24.8]:
The second thing to me really becomes about treating the prospect like a prospect, and it's so important that we treat them like a warm, rich, highpotential resident, but they're not yet a customer, meaning, do the things like you would wanna be sold to as well, follow up. And don't stop after one touch, and I think there is automation... I won't sell Rent Dynamics right now, but there is a lot of automation out there that you can use to do followup sequences with your prospects in your funnel, but you can also be disciplined with how you use your email and your phone call to totally just taking the time to have a leasing strategy in a playbook, and then using your technology to make sure that you don't just stop after they show up for the tour, you could be winning a heck of a lot faster with those two things.
Nicolina Savelli [0:18:13.0]:
Absolutely, I find that in this industry, the crossing the finish line is the hardest part of this process, and a lot of people kind of lose momentum near the end, and that's really the sticking point for this, so they need to really make sure that that engagement remains throughout the entire entire process, from booking to leasing and getting them across the finish line. So your opinion on lead quality, this is something that comes up a lot, especially when we're talking to people using ILS' and things like that to get their properties out there. Your marketing team could be bringing in thousands of leads for your sales reps, but what if your lead to lease rate is super low, do you have any thoughts around how marketers can improve the quality of their leads or what might be happening there that is causing this low kind of opportunity for sales reps...
Mike Wolber [0:19:15.9]:
Yeah, I think it's an age old debate that I think to all of us in any industry, in any business, and I think it's the classic, are you doing a spray and pray or are using a fishing pole? And I think looking to go after potential residents with a high intent to rent is very much how a marketer should be running their shop and measuring so that you can optimize, again, like measuring and actually spending time in your platforms to measure is important, but I do think that whether you're using your marketing technology, which for many companies is very robust, or your lead management technology to look upstream and see across your marketing expenses, where are you seeing the highest conversion rates, where are you seeing the fastest velocity, meaning the propensity from that first contact to move in and use that to iterate. I think, unfortunately, a lot of people still set their marketing budgets in the fall when budgets are due, and they leave them relatively stagnant unless there's like an occupancy or exposure crisis, whereas I think we could be doing quarterly revisions based on 90 days worth of rich data, to make some really meaningful optimizations, but I think looking at that conversion rate, you want the highest possible percentage and velocity, if you kind of pull those two levers, you could probably move a lot faster and spend a little bit more efficiently as well.
Nicolina Savelli [0:20:42.5]:
Awesome. I mean, you've kind of answered the next question a little bit for me, but I do wanna make mention of it, just hone it into it a little bit more, obviously there's tons of different lead gen sources that people can be leveraging right now, it could be at their website, listing sites, Google Ads, referrals, a combination of all the above. Would you say there's a best way for marketers to generate leads today or a best combination of things, and you've kind of just said that with measuring your lead velocity and what channels are doing that, but maybe you can expand a little bit on some of those and why you think that they're so crucial right now?
Mike Wolber [0:21:23.1]:
Yeah, look, I just went through a leasing experience as I'm moving my family to Utah, we're building a custom home that's not gonna be ready till the fall, so we're gonna be living in an apartment for about six months, and I did some broad net searches to figure out location and amenities, we've got two kids, two dogs, we're not looking for a studio, we're not looking for a third story, we know we're looking for... But it took time, some general searches, once we locked in though, we're gonna be living at a community called The Falls in Logan, Utah, I went to that website 30-40 times over the process of the last couple of weeks as I was planning the move, as I was nurturing myself through the process the leasing team was great, but I'll tell you that having a really repeatable way to win someone's attention once they know who you are is really important. So I do think that the website probably get slept on still too much, but again, we have an attribution challenge in the industry too, where I think the website also gets way too much credit, and so I think that's another challenge is that if the last thing someone did was go to the website before they called, everyone looks to the website, but they don't take into account all the things that person did prior to. And I know I'm totally riffing, but I think the last thing I'll say here before breathing is that my challenge here is don't just use one technology to look to see what's working and what's not, because on my end, I might see a lot of property website visits but if you go into your marketing technology, you'll see a lot of referring sources for how traffic's getting to the website and using those two in combination, even if you don't have beautiful multitouch attribution, you can put together a really good analysis to understand that if you drop your spend here and crank it up here, you'll win a lot better tomorrow.
Nicolina Savelli [0:23:17.1]:
Absolutely, great, great insight there. Now, I'm going to... So that's the end of my of questions on this, and I'd like to move into some kind of popular listener audience questions, and they may cover some of the areas that we've already touched on, but this one's a little long, so let me get through it for you. So right now, we're having a hard time quantifying marketing and advertising spend to determine if our leads or prospects have become leases, our marketing team is generating a decent amount of leads and our leasing agents seem to be hitting their targets, however, it feels like there's a breakdown and whether our marketing team is effectively generating pipeline for agents to get leases signed, everyone appears to be working in silos and no one is happy with one another, how can we fix this problem? Are there tactics or tools we can employ to make our lead to lease process more holistic?
Mike Wolber [0:24:11.7]:
Yeah, that's such a good question. And it's honestly like, that's a podcast, we should probably do, you, me, and a customer and record it like webinar-style or something, but here's how I lead a B2B business, we review our forecast every week, we review our pipeline every week, and we review our marketing every week, and it helps us understand what's working, where the breakdowns are, and it's part of the rhythm of the business, it's a very repeatable process we run to make sure that there are no silos, that we're speaking candidly, and that we're using yesterday's information in this case last week's information to plan for this week, and I think our primary customer or primary partner and the lead management marketing side of the house, they're way too busy, they're way too strapped. If I'm a Vice President of Marketing responsible for the marketing stack and leasing, that is way too much work, and so... And that's just like the empathy inside of me like I understand that...
Nicolina Savelli [0:25:15.9]:
Yeah, you get it.
Mike Wolber [0:25:17.6]:
But I'll say that I think there's a massive opportunity to treat your business like a sales business and to spend time weekly, whether it's a big organization where you have regional vice presidents, have your regional VPs work with their respective properties once a week or once a month, to do some analysis and roll it up, and then we'll shine some spotlights on where the winds are and where the faults are, and the reality is that the feet on the street, the leasing agents and the property managers, they often times have really rich feedback that doesn't always make it up to corporate, and I think if you can break that down and put some sort of forecast or business review in place to talk about how corporate can get regional and then property feedback rolling up, you'll be able to really understand, Hey, we're getting a lot of calls from this source, they suck, and that's kind of a bummer to say out loud until you realize that if you make that small iteration next month, does it feel better? Right, right. Yeah, and that's not a technology that's just talking to your team.
Nicolina Savelli [0:26:17.6]:
Totally. No, that's great advice. I think that, yeah, you could be... It is fixing a process because it's something that you've been doing that you think is working, but it actually might not be working, and if you eliminate it, it would make everything go a lot faster, so I think that that's a really important point to touch on, so the second question is, we've noticed that social media marketing has truly become a focus over the last year, likely influenced by covid, and I need to find new channels to promote and develop the brand of your property. However, we manage mostly Class B and C properties, do you think it's worth investing in paid social media for our properties as well as including high-quality photos, virtual tours, and renderings, or is this not fundamental to attracting our target tenant? I think that might be two questions almost, but is it worth investing in paid media, and then maybe we can talk about the high-quality photos and virtual tours after that.
Mike Wolber [0:27:24.8]:
Yeah, totally. I mean, I think there is a short answer, which is yes, but then don't get complacent, and to the points, we've talked about earlier, once you start doing it, is it working? And I think that becomes... Play the long game, you can't make inmonth decisions that's too arbitrary, and a long leasing and sales cycle, like we have a multifamily if you're arbitrarily looking in month out of month like You're gonna be just too shortsighted, but I do believe that social piece does play a big role, and I'll even tell you that before I filled out a form to become a lead for the apartment, I leased I was getting brand recall advertisements through display and social for sure, and it just helped reinforce like, Hey, they're really catering to me and even if I didn't click on them, which is that a free impression, 'cause you don't have to pay them as they click it, that kind of thing is valuable. But I also think that there's a big opportunity as a marketer to think about retention tactics, and Can you double down on even running an advertising campaign to your residents to join your Facebook community, and maybe that can have a positive impact on retention. And we know that keeping someone is a heck of a lot more costeffective than finding someone new, and so I think that's another lens to think about social is really doubling down on community. 'cause when I go to a Facebook page and see activity, it's exciting, when I see it, really void as a prospect, it's kind of like, Yeah, what's going on here? What's the one... Another way to think about it.
Nicolina Savelli [0:28:56.6]:
For sure. Now, in terms of obviously virtual tours and everything, and high-quality photos and all of that have become paramount to kind of providing a brand image on properties and the value that you're presenting if you do have maybe Class C properties and those images aren't going to wow, is it still worth investing in those things, how can people kind of maybe tenants in that space or those target tenants, they just need something cheap and fast, and they're not too too concerned with how it looks, but is there still value in that adding those things and how can you maybe do that in a way that's cost effective, that you're not saying, Oh my gosh, why did I spend three grand on a virtual tour for this rental that is only $700 a month?
Mike Wolber [0:29:47.7]:
It's a great question. Everyone should have virtual content for sure, and there's gonna be different tiers, you've got these best in breed, really expensive providers that do this incredible 360 camera photography, some at scale is really price effective, some it is really expensive. And your budget's not always gonna be there for that, and that's just human-like that makes sense. And also, not everyone's gonna have the resources to fully step into a virtual sales process, or you can have an agent with Zoom that can jump on and really walk you through a virtual sale, but I'll tell you that if I'm a modern buyer in 2021, I wanna go to the website and I wanna be able to see a walk through the unit that I'm interested in. That's table stakes. This guy shoots in 4K, I'm holding up my Iphone.
Nicolina Savelli [0:30:35.5]:
I can see that, I can see that.
Mike Wolber [0:30:37.5]:
And to have one leasing agent, property manager, whomever, walkthrough for one day and do a couple of two minute tours with some decent explanation of the benefits, the perks, the amenities, upload those to YouTube, and then for free integrate those into your website and get some boosted SEO value, like why wouldn't every website had that at the baseline, that's gonna be a business day, so don't edit it if you have time, do it, but if not, just do best. And I think one of the best things about the pandemic has been that we've all realized that my dog is most likely going to walk behind me during this podcast and that's okay.
Nicolina Savelli [0:31:17.4]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that you've made some good points there, my brother, he's 27 years old, he's looking for rentals, and I'm in Hamilton, Ontario, and our rentals have basically gone up probably double over the course of this pandemic, which is insane, but I'm still not gonna look or send properties to my brother who he's not looking for something luxury or purposebuilt, but he still needs to live in comfort, and I'm not gonna send him listings that don't have a little bit of indepth or high quality photos that you know that someone just took themselves it's not like they hired a photographer to do it, but as long as it shows the core, the core property value and can I live there, is that a place where I can live and be comfortable at the very least, I think that that's communication that we just need to make the bare minimum for no matter what class B class C, class A property doesn't matter, and yeah, you're not gonna stand out from the class A, but... That's okay, those aren't your target tenants, you still need to be accommodating those tenants that care and their digital generation...And they're going online. And that's their first point of, What does this place look like? So yeah, I will end my rant there and say that Mike, it's been a pleasure chatting with you today, and I can't wait to get this episode out because I think so many multifamily marketing teams and leasing agents are craving this content. I think we could do another episode and fill out with a whole other slew of updated questions, but maybe we'll save that for a couple of months from now on before how... Let's do it. So before you go, can you please let listeners know where they can connect with you online or anywhere else?
Mike Wolber [0:33:15.5]:
Yeah, so I'm definitely pretty active on social media, Mike Wolber, I'll be right at the top for LinkedIn, and I definitely love connecting with anyone and everyone on LinkedIn for sure. This year, I've actually doubled down on Twitter and really started building a new community on Twitter that's been really fun just for learning, marketing and technology, and even some early learnings on venture capital, so you can find me there at @themikewolber is my handle on Twitter.
Nicolina Savelli [0:33:41.7]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again for taking the time to join me on this episode of Get Synced. And until next time, keep swimming.
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