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Housing is a hot topic in Canadian mainstream media and we couldn’t be more grateful, because even though steps are being taken to improve the state of housing in the country, there is still much work to be done. Joining us today to speak about Canada’s rental landscape is a journalist with her finger on the pulse – Toronto Star’s Business Reporter, Clarrie Feinstein. After explaining what drew her to journalism and business reporting and real estate, Clarrie walks us through the current trends of the housing market, why many buyers are tentative and overwhelmed, what the HST removal could mean for developers and new developments, and how the housing crisis has negatively affected the general mood of Canadians. Then, we take a closer look at how the mass exodus from big cities is shaping smaller neighbouring towns, how housing costs influence Canada’s international reputation, the ins and outs of short-term rentals, and our guest’s vision for the future of the Canadian housing market.
Key Points From This Episode:
[0:00:39] ANNOUNCER: Hello, and welcome to Sync or Swim, a weekly podcast, brought to you by Rentsync. Where we take a deep dive into the PropTech, multifamily, and rental housing industry. In each episode, we uncover the technologies, and strategies used to help overcome operational challenges and increase the value of your multi-family investments. Let’s get into our conversation today.
[0:01:04] GL: Hey, everyone and welcome to another episode of Sync or Swim, the podcast where we navigate the currents of the rental housing industry. I'm your host, Giacomo Ladas. My guest today is Clarrie Feinstein, one of our favourite business reporters from the Toronto Star. Clarrie, thanks so much for joining us today. We love your work and I'm super excited to have this conversation today.
[0:01:20]CF: Thanks so much for having me. Can't wait.
[0:01:22] GL: For those who maybe don't know, which I implore them to seek your work out, tell us a little about yourself, how you got started in business reporting, or in journalism, and then, maybe specifically in the real estate and housing market as well.
[0:01:34] CF: Yes, sure. I'm a business reporter with Toronto Star, born and raised in Toronto, so I know the city very well. I was first drawn to business reporting, when I did a fellowship in New York City at Business Insider, where I covered the business of healthcare in the US. I learned very quickly that our daily lives are really impacted by our financial institutions, by the economy, by corporate structures. I really saw the immediate impact of how business affects us day to day in very significant ways. I also didn't have a business or economics background. So I found it to be very challenging, more challenging than other beats had been for me in the past, and I loved the challenge, and I loved getting to learn so much with every story that I was writing.
When the position opened up to be a business reporter at Toronto Star, I sort of readily jumped on it, and luckily gotten the job. I've been at the Toronto Star now for two years. Then, when it comes to real estate, I'm sort of more new to the beat, I sort of just started six months ago. But naturally, I was already writing about real estate as a business reporter, and then kind of when our resident real estate reporter retired, they asked me to take on the beat, which I was very happy to do.
[0:02:47] GL: Yes. Imagine now, like switching to that angle, the housing market and business reporting seems to be like the focal point now. It seems to be as soon as you're in TV, and everything that's going on in politics, or the news, it seems so really completely circled around the housing supply issue. I'm sure, maybe you haven't heard for this much, doom and gloom, but you seem to be getting it right now.
[0:03:06] CF: Yes, exactly. I don't think I knew sort of maybe when I was starting to do some real estate reporting a couple of years ago, that it would end up being a behemoth that it is now, but it's top of mind for so many people. It's a huge issue in Canada. It's one that really needs a lot of our attention. I'm really happy that I'm able to report on it, and they're really expanding the team at the Star as well to do this type of coverage, which is very needed.
[0:03:28] GL: Oh, great.
[0:03:29] CF: Yes, yes, it's fantastic.
[0:03:31] GL: Well, let's get into this then. Given so many recent articles and what you're hearing. We can probably talk about this all day, but what are some of these notable trends you're observing in the Canadian rental market right now? A lot of our listeners seem to know a little bit about it, but maybe for those who don't, what's going on?
[0:03:45] CF: Yes. I think it's important to know that rents really skyrocketed during the pandemic. They're starting to plateau now, but they're still very elevated compared to 2019 levels, and it's very unlikely that they're going to come down. This happens too as landlords have mortgages that are renewing, they're going to be renewing at much higher interest rates than what they had. That gets offloaded onto the renter. That's going to continue. There's not really good news there for people who are renting.
The big topic I think, that a lot of people are aware of is just supply in the market. There's very, very tight demand and supply. We just don't have enough rental stock to meet the demand, especially as we have record levels of newcomers coming into the country, we just simply don't have the infrastructure to support that. Many newcomers when they first come to Canada, many tend to rent and then buy. That will continue to be top of mind in Toronto, and we'll continue to see that play out.
Something that's interesting too, that sort of came from a recent Royal LePage report that I did back in December. But we're coming to a time when housing is very unaffordable for many people. This is a huge issue for first-time homebuyers. That will result in them having to rent for longer. So that then puts further strain on the rental market, because then, you have even less supply, because there's less of that sort of upward mobility in housing. That's going to be a new dynamic in the housing market that's really going to impact renters as well. Those are just some of the big things.
[0:05:12] GL: Yes. That's interesting to say, because part of my job is just talking about renters in the rental market. But I try to say when I'm talking to journalists or reporters too, it's like – and obviously, you hit the nail on the head there. But what's happening in the ownership market really does affect what's happening in the rental market. Anecdotally, like myself, and my peers, and a lot of my colleagues, a lot of us are renters who want to get into the homeownership market. But is this really the right time for us? We're all kind of waiting for their interest rates to go down, or you hear the whispers of a potential housing crash. There's a large section of this country that are young professionals, and approaching the ages of 25 and 40 who want to buy a house, but is this really the time? Everyone seems to be a little bit on pins and needles right now just kind of waiting to see what happens in the next six months to a year.
[0:05:58] CF: Yes, that's right. It's something too, that people are kind of potentially waiting for interest rates to come down for the Bank of Canada to make that move. But there's also then this concern that as soon as they do that, prices will go back up again. It's like, is now the good time to buy when maybe my interest rates will be elevated, but home prices sort of plateaued or dropped sort of since that February 2022 peak. Is now the time or do I need to wait for interest rates to drop and sort of gamble then with the potential of home prices going up? It's a really tough time. As a lot of realtors say, you can never really time the market. You don't really know when things are going to happen and how it will impact home prices and activities. It's definitely a tough time if you're considering buying sort of in the next year or two, for sure.
[0:06:40] GL: Yes. You wrote an article a couple of weeks ago, I believe it's on the fifth or sixth where you're talking about Toronto in 2023, home sales, they've reached record lows. We've talked to a couple of mortgage brokers, like Ron Butler, who's all over social media. But the idea behind that is, everyone's waiting for interest rates to go down. If we expect that to happen in 2024, well, that's probably going to bring a lot of people into the market, which then might increase housing prices. I don't know how to time this. I don't know. I think people are not really sure exactly how to time this. If we wait for interest rates to go down, people seem to expect, well, that just going to actually increase prices, because there'll be more people who are looking to buy. Is that kind of what you're picking up to, and what you're trying to hear on the beat?
[0:07:26] CF: Yes. No, that's exactly it. I think it's something where that's just sort of the tricky dynamic that's playing out right now. Some experts say that because interest rates are still quite high, it's very unlikely they're going to go to the lows that we were seeing in the pandemic. The Bank of Canada's overnight lending rate was 0.25% for a prolonged period of time, people were getting mortgages of interest, 1.5%, kind of unheard of. They say that that's not going to happen again.
People sort of – that feeding frenzy that we saw at the height of the pandemic, it's unlikely we'll reach those heights again. But then, you kind of have the question of, well, now, is this our new normal that we have home prices here that are well over $1 million sort of the average selling price, and then on top of that, we have interest rates? Even if it is 4.5%, you're dealing with a much more expensive mortgage than you were. We're sort of just in a tricky, new normal, and it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
[0:08:20] GL: Yes. I think that's just going to lead people to rent longer. Even if the interest rates do come down a bit, it's still the housing affordability issue. It just doesn't work, right? I mean, there was this illusion that people used to grow up thinking that 30% of your income goes towards housing. That's something I mentioned a lot to people too. When I say, what are advice you have for renters? I think advice is always like, make sure you set your expectations properly. Because if you're getting to the rental market for the first time, you might want to only spend 30% of your income towards housing. But when the average rent in Toronto is $2,600, $2,700, $2,800 a month, I don't know how that's feasible. People are renting longer, and people are looking for roommates longer. It's just interesting to see what happens.
[0:09:01] CF: Yes, exactly. I think there was sort of in like the RBC affordability index, they looked at it in Toronto. This might be more so for when it comes to mortgage cost, or buying as opposed to rent. But yes, sort of that 30%, which is the marker for affordability in Toronto. I mean, it's way out of whack. It's sort of in the 80% range. That really goes to show how far off course we are. Yes.
[0:09:26] GL: I'm sure as we've talked to developers a lot, because the ones that I've talked to, like the big thing that happened recently was that the federal government removed HST for purpose-built rentals. In the hopes that it will increase the supply that we see in the market. Because the purpose of - rental market has seen such a neglect for decades, that even though recently, we are actually starting new builds at an all-time high since the seventies. It's still so undersupplied.
Developers that I've talked, they did mention that removing the HST from this is going to be a pretty good first step, but that's all it is, is a first step. A lot more has to happen in order to springboard more development. Have you heard anything about that, or have you talked to any developers about what needs to be done or what the HST removal will do for them?
[0:10:07] CF: Yes. As you say, it's sort of a good first step in that direction. I think there's sort of all of these different factors at play, economically, a big one is interest rates. When interest rates are so high, it costs more than to do the project. I think a lot of them are anxiously waiting for what happens there with interest rates, like the rest of us, in order to continue with new builds. The cost of materials has gone up significantly over the course of the pandemic. I mean, just the cost to do the project in general has gone up significantly. It's just delaying projects.
The topics that I've looked at more is when you look at preconstruction buyers, they're really struggling there. Because when people sort of bought, let's say, at the height of the pandemic, now, their appraisals are coming up short, they're not able potentially to close on the unit. When builders don't have people closing on their units, it's then difficult to get the project done. Condo towers, for example, you need, I think it's 75% to 80% of those units are pre-sold, and that's what funds the project. When, potentially dozens of units are unable to close developers are going to have a big, big problem.
I haven't spoken to specific developers about this yet. But people have said sort of the thing to be watching out for this year are sort of the mid to small-sized developers that are really going to be struggling, and then, which are the big developers that come in and sort of take them over? I think that's sort of a big trend to be looking out for this year.
[0:11:33] GL: Yes. I think it was this week, you wrote an article or you posted one about just the bankruptcy uptick that we're seeing, or that's what kind of some experts are seeing. It's just, this is unfortunately reality. It's hard, because you just see numbers or stats, or you read in New York. But you realize, these are people's lives, and these are people's – they put all their hopes into something, then they realize that they can afford it. It's different when you actually start talking to people. This is actually not just – it's so easy to hear, "Oh, it went up 9%. It went up 12%. Interest rates are this." But it's like, well, no, these are families, these people's lives that are really affected by this. I'm sure you've talked to people too, and I'm sure you see that. I don't know, the mood of the country is just a little off right now, I would say. I think a lot of it comes from the housing we're seeing.
[0:12:18] CF: Yes, exactly. I mean, I think sometimes, when I tell people I'm a real estate reporter, they think it's a little dry, a little bit boring. But I have to remind them that it's a very emotional issue. It's one of the things where, if you're buying a house, it's one of the biggest purchases you'll make in your life. When you have to rent, it's what keeps a roof over your head, it's fundamentally of great importance. When we are in a city like Toronto that is so unaffordable, it takes a huge emotional toll on people. It can really start to dictate what people think their life is going to look like. I think it's really important to remind ourselves of that fact. As a lot of housing advocates tell me, housing isn't a commodity, it's a human right. It's really important that we remember that. Because right now, we're sort of in a system that's very much of the mindset where it is a commodity, and it's a privilege to have housing, which is maybe a mindset that needs to start shifting.
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[0:13:30] GL: Yes, that's a good point. I think that kind of segues well towards non-permanent residents, or international students now that – I saw a recent article where they said about a third of international students don't plan on staying in Canada past their studies, because it's just become a little bit unaffordable. They come here, hoping that they can get a great education and maybe pursue a career here. But when they see the cost of housing, even what a rental is. It's just not feasible for them anymore. I guess, maybe the scary thing that comes from that is, does it change the reputation of the country when, internationally, it's not really a destination as much as it was anymore for people to come in and pursue education and pursue a life, really. Like, my name is Giacomo, I'm a family of immigrants who came here to start a better life. But now, when you see that so many are saying that, "Well, this isn't a place to stay anymore with the cost of housing," it's kind of scary. It kind of wonders what the reputation of Canada will be if this kind of persists to the outside world.
[0:14:26] CF: Yes. Yes, I agree. It's sort of one of the countries where if you come here, you could potentially have a great life for yourself. I'm also a first-generation Canadian, my parents immigrated here in the nineties. That was sort of the basis for why they decided to move. Two years after moving, they were able to buy a home in the annex, when prices were much, much, much, much less, over a decent chunk of time. But they were able to pay off their mortgage and that's just – that is out of reach for any young – not even young person now, but anyone, I would say, sort of middle-aged and younger. It's just really unfortunate that that is now the landscape of Canada.
As you say, when students come here to study, and they want to be an active part of Canadian society. That even if you have a good job, you still won't be able to buy a home. It's crushing for many people. It's definitely the reason for why people are, if not leaving Canada, then definitely, leaving Toronto. That was a piece, I sort of wrote about this last fall, was just sort of the state of students right now, and how they feel about once they graduate. Because many say that they're going to leave the city because of affordability reasons, which is huge, because you used to see migration based off of jobs and job opportunity. That's the reason why so many people come to Toronto, which is still definitely the case. We don't want to say that people are just sort of fleeing Toronto, that's not really what's happening, but we're seeing bigger numbers.
[0:15:52]GL: That drive around the city, drive around the city, and you'll see people are still there.
[0:15:55] CF: Of course. Yes, very much a vibrant city. But it's just sort of interesting to see now maybe what's motivating people to move.
[0:16:01] GL: Yes. We're seeing that too, because we post or demand reports in our annual rent reports. It shows that, what's really happening in this country is that even interprovincial migration where people – talking about international students, or any international comes in the country and how that affects the dynamics. But even amongst Canadians, tens of thousands of people between the ages of 25 and 35 left Ontario in the last 18 months or so. And they're going to Alberta, or they're going to the Maritimes. Obviously, that increases demand in those areas, and we're seeing that the fastest-growing rental market right now is Alberta, it's Calgary because the demand has gone up so much, and there's no way around it. People don't prioritize accessibility anymore. It's now affordability and what's more affordable.
I believe the average rent right now in Canada is just shy of $2,200. But in Calgary, it's like $400 to $500 less, and that adds up. So we're seeing the interprovincial migration go that way, and I believe – we used to always see these ads all around for people or Calgary promoting people coming there. Come to Calgary. Come to Alberta. I feel like that's kind of slowed down a little bit, where they're starting to get such an influx of people now that the demand has become so high. I'm sure you've heard people leave this province and go to other areas. Obviously, that affects the supply issues there.
[0:17:15] CF: Yes. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's the thing, is sort of, once the urban centers become too expensive, and people start to move out, then it makes those other areas more expensive, and it sort of jacks up the cost in other parts. You sort of start to see that even in Toronto, what people are saying is, "Well, now we see a huge increase in prices, just generally all over the GTA." So now, when people are like, "Oh. Well, I'm thinking potentially of moving to Ajax, or Pickering, or maybe what used to be more affordable with Brampton." Those are really expensive markets now, and that makes the affordability issue even harder. It all sounds very bleak, and there's definitely pockets where people can still buy housing, but I think it just goes to show how it's spreading even more for sure.
[0:17:57] GL: What's interesting too, is how this has kind of affected the short-term rental market as well, because in search for more supply, that they're now maybe adding some limits to people having these short-term rentals. Have you heard anything about that, about what's going on with, allowing Airbnb, or Vrbo, or just the short-term rental market in general?
[0:18:16] CF: Yes. This isn't – I will preface this on a huge part of my coverage. But there was a big announcement sort of late last year that there was going to be a new tax measure. Implemented to sort of take away incentives for people leasing short-term properties. So it makes them less lucrative for people who list homes on platforms like Airbnb and Vrbo. The measure just came into effect January 1st, so it's very recent. But it basically implies that hosts can no longer claim expenses against the income that they make from their rentals. But this will only apply to property owners in areas that prohibit short-term rentals, or those who are not compliant with the local laws. It's not across the board.
The government, the federal government also announced that it was going to provide $50 million over three years to support sort of local enforcement to help with these new laws. I can sort of veer a little bit, because something that I did do recently was looking at short-term bylaws in cottage country. It was sort of a big interest. People love sort of knowing what's going on in cottage country. It's a big part of Ontario and just sort of Canadian culture. But what we really saw on the pandemic is, people bought up a lot of property in cottage country, when interest rates were so low. They were like, "This is my time to buy a cottage." A lot of people would sort of lease out the property, and they were able to make substantial money from doing so. But then, there was sort of this backlash towards that from the people that actually lived in the area year-round. We're kind of seeing this move in Ontario with their sort of dozens of municipalities, and townships over the last few years that have sort of introduced various bylaws. Mostly, that have to do with noise and safety complaints.
They really say the impetus for sort of having these bylaws is to improve housing affordability, and then to also address the issues of noise and safety. But then on the other side, the people that sort of own these short-term rentals say that it's going to hinder local tourism, the local economy, and it also sort of hinders their own finances of what they can do with their own property that they bought. The bylaws really range kind of from region to region, and it's something that we could start to see impact, maybe more urban centers. So there's certain things like people now have to get a licensing fee, they need safety inspections, there's a limit on the number of visitors.
A huge issue that was happening as people were having sort of their bachelor, or bachelorette parties, having 20 people in a home, when really they can only have five.
[0:20:42] GL: No. People are doing that?
[0:20:44] CF: Yes. Apparently so. One that was like sort of this really big, contentious issue was having adequate parking because of that, and then sort of just rules around noise and safety. Then, sort of that, if any bylaws are broken, there's kind of these hefty fines or a pretty significant sort of demerit point system that's used. So really interesting to kind of see how it's playing out in townships and municipalities, not that far away from Toronto, Prince Edward County, parts of Muskoka, areas we know pretty well. It will be interesting to see maybe how that could impact urban centers too.
[0:21:16] GL: It's amazing how fast the turnaround was. Just a couple of years ago, I've seen people, they wanted to buy this up, and the interest rates were good, and to make it a nice profit. Twenty-five months, 26 months later, it's like, "Uh-oh, it's amazing how fast has happened." That's something that I find kind of alarming. Do you see how any maybe recent economic, or maybe some social factors have kind of impacted the rental landscape in Canada as a whole? It's interesting too, because people say that we're in a recession, or we're in a soft one. But unemployment rates are still pretty good.
It's interesting how when you see something like that, typically those that keeps the rental market busy, because people are actually still working. But yet, no one has any money. It's kind of interesting how this economic landscape is right now and how it's affecting the rental market. Demand has still remained high, even though supply really isn't there. Also, from what I've read, people kind of expected the housing market to even have bounced a little bit more by now, but it's staying a little bit stronger than what people thought. Especially with the interest rates, the way they are. Have you kind of seen that as well, or seen how maybe any recent economic factors have really affected the rental landscape in general? Again, there's a lot of relation to the housing market as well, but just kind of hear your perspective on what the economy is doing, and kind of how that's maybe affected the rental market.
[0:22:31] CF: Yes. I think during the pandemic, as I said, there was a time of very low interest rates. There was really an influx of investors that entered the market. Many scooped up condos, I think around 10% of mortgage properties were taken up by investors. Now, I think they corner sort of 30% of Canadian mortgaged homes, which is significant. When it comes to condos, those are typically the most common property that's used for rental. Investors are really dictating that part of the market for renters. It's obviously a for-profit business for many landlords. So renters are really having to deal with higher market rent value. That's definitely an offshoot of the pandemic.
I think sort of the things that we were seeing really comes to just this low supply of purpose-built rental, that's really being pushed now by the federal and provincial governments. They'd been out of the business of doing that for decades. There were sort of these big monetary cuts to their budgets, sort of in the eighties and nineties. They sort of left that to for-profit companies, where they kind of privatize the sector. That's really dictated the types of units that get built. Especially in Toronto, we see sort of this influx of condos being built, but maybe not that sort of mid-rise density that people really advocate for. Where you sort of have more spacious living accommodations, and you still see some of those buildings in Toronto that were done in the sixties and seventies, that are rent controlled, and people have a more spacious apartment. And you can actually raise a family in those units.
I think there's sort of this drive to maybe trying to go back to that type of housing, that really does need to have more government involvement in it. Because, just condo developers aren't going to be incentivized to build those types of properties on their own. It's sort of, I guess, interesting to see maybe now that the federal and provincial governments are really starting to ramp that up. Especially as we have a federal election coming up, that's a big topic, and it's something that they really want to show that they're on top of.
I think now, we're starting to see them sort of come out with these proposals and plans to do so. As you said, sort of removing the HST is a big one to incentivize developers to build more. But it's definitely an interesting time, I guess when it comes to, I guess your question here, just on households and how they're doing financially. People are always going to need housing no matter what, and that's never going to change. I think that demand will always be there. I guess what makes it difficult is just, how do we get enough supply to them? And that's something that just takes many, many years to do, so it's a big question.
[0:25:13] GL: Yes. We mentioned this throughout the chat, but how it seems a little doom and gloom. But I think, some of the positive sides that comes from this, and it comes from people like you getting these articles in front of people, and reading about what people are actually saying. It comes from the right reports that actually say what people are saying is that, it seems to be getting to the minds of policymakers and the government that this is actually becoming something that there may – because elections coming up, but this is something that has affected them and they are addressing. You can't turn on TV anymore without hearing about housing supply issues and purposeful rentals, and incentives they can do so.
I think to add a little positivity and to end this conversation is, it seems to actually be working. What we're doing is that, they're noticing that there is an issue, and that they're really trying to bring an influx of supply into the market. I think we're on the right path. But if you wanted to maybe take a crystal ball, and predict what happens in the next year or two. If you have any predictions of what could happen like – I can hear what you're thinking, I'll say what I'm kind of thinking, but kind of say, looking ahead, what do you kind of see happening?
[0:26:17] CF: I think, as you say it, it's good to have some positivity, and all sort of note that there have been sort of these tenant advocacy groups, and there are sort of renters who are demanding sort of better conditions in their buildings, and to have sort of rent control in their buildings. So there's really people sort of on the ground doing the work to get sort of better living conditions for themselves. That's really important and a very positive thing to recognize, maybe unfortunate that it has to sort of go to those levels of people having to sort of fight for what should sort of be their basic right. But it's important to know that there is a lot of advocacy and work happening there.
When I sort of see the bigger trends, generally, as you say, it's a step in the right direction. That government is finally sort of stepping in, doing the work to actually help get housing supply to the market. There are some really aggressive targets that they have that if met would be very impressive. We need 3.5 million homes built sort of in the next decade, it's substantial, and I think people say, might not hit that target. But it's good to know that those are the types of goals in mind, in order to help Canadians out.
When it comes to more short-term in the next year or two, you sort of hope that potentially with lower interest rates, we could sort of get housing starts back up again. We were sort of hitting great numbers a couple of years ago, that it's kind of stalled. But we, hopefully, if the Bank of Canada does sort of cut rates, even if it's March, and all that can sort of get builders back into developing housing that is sorely needed in Toronto.
I think something that's really important to note is, as people say, the last thing people want to do when it comes to housing is default on their mortgage payments. The last thing they want to do is sell their property. So it's really important to note that people can work with their financial institutions to ensure that that doesn't happen. Something to be watching out for is the rise in default, is the rise in power of sales, because there are some people that will not be able to afford these higher mortgages. That's a very sad reality. But the vast majority will be able to, and it's important to know that you don't want to lose your home, and the bank doesn't want that either. So they want you to keep your mortgage. And so they will work with you to try and figure something out, so I think it's important.
Sometimes there can be a lot of fear of what could happen when it comes to housing, and it's important to know that there's a lot of precaution, and there's a big safety net there to help people. I think really, the only thing that we really have to look out for is if there is a pretty impactful recession, and there is massive layoffs, or job loss that I think is a time to be really concerned. But a lot of economists don't see us veering into that this year, which is great, which is good.
[0:29:08] GL: Yes. It's true. The last thing people will give up on is their home, right?
[0:29:12] CF: Yes.
[0:29:13] GL: It's always like, they'll make changes no matter what, just to keep that.
[0:29:16] CF: Just to keep it, exactly. There's sort of various ways you can do that. You can sort of extend your amortization, you can make your payments more affordable. There's all of these methods to do it, and people would rather sort of be a little bit more delayed with credit card payments, or car payments. Which is unfortunate, that those are the choices that are being made, but it's just important to know housing's always kind of the last one.
[0:29:35] GL: Right. Well, Clarrie, if people are interested, what's the best way for people to follow you? So, if they'll miss an article and kind of keep up to date with what you're working on.
[0:29:43] CF: I will say I'm not very active on social media. Twitter has become a bit of a difficult place for journalists. But I keep [inaudible 0:29:50], sort of, as I'm sure people are aware. So I do occasionally retweet my articles and colleague's articles on housing. So people can just find me on Twitter by just typing in my name, Clarrie Feinstein. I believe I'm the only one with that name on Twitter. Then, you can also find my work on my author page on the Toronto Star's website.
[0:30:09] GL: Well, I encourage our listeners to do it. As mentioned, we really admire your work, and truly, we look forward to what's to come. Because a lot of stuff that we pick up on the industry comes from you. So truly, thank you once again for joining me today, and really happy to just talk to you, and pick your brain on the industry.
[0:30:24] CF: Well, thank you so much, and thank you for the very thoughtful questions, and discussion. It's been a lot of fun.
[0:30:28] GL: You got it. You got it. Well, thank you all for listening. Make sure to rate review and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. Until next time.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:30:35] ANNOUNCER: You’ve reached the end of another episode of Sync or Swim. Make sure to visit us at rentsync.com/podcast to access show notes, key takeaways, and where you can sign up to our newsletter to receive free bonus content. If you found value in the show, please also remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Don’t forget to join us next week for another episode. Thanks for listening.
E78:The Housing Pulse: Toronto Star's Business Reporter on Canada's Rental Landscape
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